My baby girls

I guess right now I just want to know someone cares.  Just about a year and a half ago my daughters (ages 24 and 29) came home and told us (my wife) they were both addicted to heroin.  After the immediate shock, I of course took charge and was going to save them.  Sixteen months later I'm a broken, desperate, scared dad getting ready to do perhaps the toughest thing I've ever done.  I speak in the first person as if I'm alone, but my wife is beside me, actually a little to the front, leading and keeping me from falling.  She's much tougher than me.  We met with a Christian counselor this morning for the first time, and he told us what we've read about and known for some time.  We can't save them.  But we can save ourselves, and in the process give the girls a much better fighting chance.  We've been covering for them, catching them from falling, but the only thing changing is us, and it's not for the better.  I'm constantly just a few well-placed words from exploding in tears, or my eyes leaking, as my grandson used to say.  I can't go on like this.  I know we need to develop a written game plan and set boundaries.  I know the girls need to experience the consequences of their choices. 

But I don't know how to handle the pain of the thought of either of my babies being hungry, or living in their car, or turning to unhealthy and immoral ways of supporting their habits.  I love the Lord, and I trust in His ways.  But we often don't understand His ways, and things don't always turn out as we want them to.   People OD and die; women get raped; drug deals go bad.  I know that all of these things, from hungry to dead, won't be my fault.  And I know that what we've been doing is wrong, denying them the chance to learn from their mistakes.  And we're going to do this, no matter how difficult it is going to be.  But how do I handle the fear and pain?

Welcome to the site So Sad Dad. I'm sorry to hear about what you're goning through. I feel your pain and it brings tears to my eyes. I am a recovering addict, but I understand what you're going through now that I've been clean for a little bit and have friends I hold dear to me still using. Since I've been in recovery, I also see what I put my parents through. Sadly there is nothing you can do is hope and pray for your girls to be safe and someday find recovery. You might want to try Alanon or Naranon meetings. I know a lot of my friends parents have went to them and have found a lot of help there. Please keep coming back to the site. There are people on here that care a lot and have touched my life immensely! Take care!

  Welcome to the site.  You sound like you and your wife have a great relationship and that's going help a lot through this.  I, like Karebear, have got people that I care about still using/drinking their lives away and like her and you, I can do nothing to MAKE them get help. 

   And as a mother, I understand completely about not wanting to see your kids, out in the cold, living on the street, and hunting through trash cans for food.  But having said all that, you HAVE to set boundaries and you have to stick by what you set or say.  The object is to make the addiction their problem and not yours.  They have to reach 'their bottom' but you may be able to help it along.  Tough love is what they call it and believe me it is and it hurts. 

  Karebear also suggested alanon and naranon, or family meetings.  Believe me those people HAVE WALKED in your shoes and are a wealth of information.  There are online meetings I'm sure and if you need me to help you look something up, don't hesitate to private message,( pm), me.  Please hang around and let us know how things are going for you both.  We're here for you. 
 

Welcome to our community. Not only have you found a place where people care but we also have been on both sides of your dillemma - either parents or loved ones of those struggling with addiction OR addicts - and can provide you with our experience, strength and hope. Education is essential - learning about drug addiction as well as codependency and how loved ones inadvertantly, unintenionally contribute to maintaining and/or exacerbating the problem. I learned a lot in Al-Anon, Families Anonymous as well as in the open rooms of AA and NA. There was a time when I had to accept and grieve the loss of my son's health whether or not he decided to get clean. I learned to detach with love. If he chose to do drugs, he chose to not be in our family. If he had to live in his car, then that was his choice. I agreed to be a part of his recovery and NOT his drug use. Your daughters have already turned to 'unhealthy and immoral ways' - some which you should not try to think of. You can only help yourself; your daughters you can only love. Insanity is when you do the same thing and expect different results. How do handle the fear and pain, my friend? THAT is an entirely different issue. I often say fear is a lack of faith, and I have found that when I connect spiritually, and have faith that my son's higher power is watching over him, I have more serenity. Handling pain? That can come in time and with work. It is a process.The counselor can assist you with that. I have been in similar shoes. I feel your pain. We are here for you.

Thanks so much to each of you.  It's really good to open up to people who care and who know what I'm feeling.  Karebear, it's great to hear success stories. I understand it's going to be a life-long process, but you've started.  I don't know you, but I'm proud of you for your effort.  If you have any personal insight about boundaries and setting limits, I could use it.  Right now we plan on developing a graduated plan to allow our girls a short time to get things in shape before we completely detach financially.  We don't think they will be ready by the final deadline, but they will have had the chance if they really wanted to.  It's their choice.  Is $20 now and then for food or gas 'enabling'?  Maybe, if it lets them spend their own $20 on heroin.  I just don't know yet.  But we'll get a plan, let the counselor review it, then pray unceasingly.

 Paw (unusual handle for a Maw) sorry, a meager attempt at humor.  That reminds me - laughter is a great medicine, when I can find it.  Setting boundaries.  There's nothing easy about this whole mess, is there?  Are the boundaries tough enough to help?  Are the boundaries too tough, to the point that they damage instead of helP?  Are they boundaries Brenda and I can stick to?  Should we adjust them as we gain experience?  Our counselor said we had to be the ones to come up with a plan.  I know he's right, because we have to live with it>  But we need to know more.  There has to be at least two parts of the plan.  First, the part that saves us.  And second, the part that allows them to save themselves, but without damaging them in the process.  have any of you read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud?  It has been recommended to us.

Eileen C, over this last year plus, we have learned much about heroin and heroin addicts.  The very first thing we learned is that answers and help don't come easily.  About five years ago a log-time friend of mine suffered a rather quick onset of dimentia.  Lee was 82 then, and had no family, no kids, never married, and a sister who had left the state and also suffered from some mental disease.  Lee had no one but me, even as a friend.  I decided not to leave her to the State, and eventually became her legal guardien.  Trying to get help and information about the welfare system, medicare, medicaid, nursing homes and all the other things was a nightmare.  But it was nothing compared to the first few weeks of my girls' disease awareness.  Once the panic wore off, and the girls came to their "senses" (they decided they really weren't as bad off as they thought, and didn't need the treatment or counseling anyway), we had some time to start researching the subject.  But we researched it from the standopoint of saving them.  Now we've come to our "senses" and have to start learning all over.   I know it's unfair and that I speak from ignorance, but I've always thought that with a son, which I don't have, that it would be easier, because guys are tough and can take care of themselves.  How foolish that is.  I think moms and sons must be a lot like dads and daughters.  You spoke of your son';s health problems whether or not he chooses to quit using.  I don't know your situation, but I can sympathize with you.  Our oldest, Melanie, told us recently that she tested positive for Hepatitus C, so this family is likely headed for struggles in the future, whether or not the girls recover from heroin.  I do have faith in my Lord.  And while it can always be stronger, it has kept me sane and comforted many, many times.  But for all their faith, the Apostles suffered persecution and death.  I prey for the girls' recovery, and for advances in medical treatment.  But bad things do happen to good people.  I fear that, but I also have faith that God is in charge.

There is so much comfort in hearing from you all.  We know we're not alone just by logic.  But real people and real stories and heart-felt compassion (and your experience) are what will help Brenda and me the most.  I guess the pain is going to come, or stay, I should say, for a while.  It's comforting to hear that it can be survived.  I welcome and look forward to all the advice you can spare.  We're like children learning to walk again.

 God bless you all.

Many people say, the first time they enter the rooms of Al-Anon or Families Anonymous, that they thought we were ALL crazy - how could we POSSIBLY have laughter when we and our loved ones were dealing with such horrendous things?? Well, as you brilliantly said, "laughter is a great medicine." I too was the "stronger one' in my family. Please understand that the boundaries that you and your wife set are for YOU - NOT for your daughters. If you make them with an agenda that they might "help" your daughters, you may be disappointed. You must begin to learn NOT to have any expectations of them - for having expectations is another way of trying to control. These are concepts that you may struggle with, now and for a while. This journey is challenging - with ups and downs. But, you and your wife can decide to get OFF the roller-coaster of your daughters' lives and attempt to find a new life for yourselves. This is the part of the journey that you embark as well. A new life with your wife. This disease has damaged some of the "best" marriages. One more thing before I have to go for now - of COURSE your daughters told you what they told you. Part of the symptoms of the disease is minimizing, rationalizing and denial. Drug addicts NEVER want to believe they need help and always minimize what they are doing. For, you see, if they acknowledge the truth, then they will HAVE to stop. And drug addicts HAVE to continue, even in the face of negative consequences. It is a cunning, baffling disease. Until or unless they reach their "bottom." That bottom is different for every individual - it might be on place for one daughter and another place for another. We are here for you.

SoSadDad,

The above ladies have offered some great advice.  I would really encourage you to keep reaching out, as you are now.  One of the things many of us have in common in recovery is the need for prayer and developing a relationship with the God of our understanding.  It is so important to our recovery as it is for the families of the addict/alcoholic as well.   It is good to hear that you already have this established.  Keep coming back.  Clint

Hello SoSadDad, 

Amidst the heart-felt sorrow I feel for you and your family, I actually did laugh aloud at your reference to PAW being a MAW!  You see, when I joined the site over 18+ months ago, she was the first one to send me a Private Message (PM) welcoming me.  I thought, "who is this perv sending me an email?  Some dirty old man wanting me to call him PAW is NOT going to cut it with me"!!!

In 12-step recovery, we seek spiritual progress rather than perfection.  It sounds to me that your family is moving in the right direction.  You and your wife have spent the past year educating yourselves as to the disease of drug addiction and heroin use; you've connected with a Therapist for additional support; you have a faith in your God; your daughters felt safe and comfortable coming to you and sharing their truth ~ regardless of the potential outcome, fear of rejection, etc. AND you have poured out your soul to this incredibly supportive cyber-family who will walk this journey with you, one day at a time.

Everyone has a different turning point when they realize enough is enough.  I had to get to the point where I became willing to seek another way to live, sans drugs/alcohol ~ and desire to be happy, joyous and free.  I was in denial of all the messages that consistently crossed my path alerting me to the dangerous destruction that had become my life.  My God had to shut down my mind, body AND spirit in order to show me my truth.  I lost my career, home, car, social life ~ most importantly, I lost myself.  When I finally surrendered, my God began rebuilding my life into the one I have today.  I am a work in progress.  Sane, clean, sober, proud and humble ~ but mostly grateful.  

IMHO, the 12-steps (regardless of specific program) offer a simple, structured plan to address what's eating at our soul.  When we empty out the fear, shame, pain, anger, guilt and hopelessness, there is nothing left to fill with drugs/alcohol.  Instead, we have the choice to nourish our hearts by accepting AND then offering others experience, strength, hope, trust, support, hope and love.  For only what we give away enriches us from day to day.  I hope you choose to keep coming back and sharing your journey with us.  I will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

Jhe T.

 

 

...so I'll play the role of cynical jerk (nothing new of course) - from your original post.

"I love the Lord, and I trust in His ways.  But..."

often, we give ourselves great hints when we carefully review what we have said.

I can most certainly sympathize as a dad of two girls - I selfishly pray as a person in recovery that I may never have to empathize.

IMHO - the greatest gift that you can give to your girls today is an example of your faith and strength - not in a preaching or controlling way - but through your actions (which as many have described, may be counter-intuitive or present severe challenges to your parenting beliefs).  Your family will be in my prayers.

JOM

It was suggested in a meeting, in my early recovery, that giving my son ANY money at all - even a gift certificate to a food store - could, potentially, be giving him ANY money to buy drugs. I eventually saw that for myself and it stopped. He may have been hungry but he didn't starve.  He did, however, continued to use.....It is very challenging to identify the difference between enabling and helping - there may be a period of trial and error. And, it can be dangerous and detrimental to all. We can learn what is enabling and not enabling, in our individual situations,  in our own time. We have to do what we feel comfortable with. We have to be mindful, though, that insanity is doing the same thing (s) and expecting different results.

You are all so good!  I wish I had found this site 16 months ago.  Maybe my girls wouldn't be better yet, but Brenda and I would.  I don't think I have mentioned it, but in the midst of this most recent period of pitiful desperation, I found out two weeks ago that the company I worked for for 15 years, and that I love, was being sold.  I've always been able to put things in perspective, and not worry about things I can't control.  But I wasn't sure I could handle this additional stress.  But God loves me - first I found you folks, and then yesterday I got an offer from the new owners which was better than my current employment situation.  So today at least for a while I am in a brighter mood.

I need some technical advice.  We pay for Jenn's methadone weekly.  We pay for car insurance for both of them.  We pay Jenn's gas, electric and water.  We pay her car payment,  We sometimes pay her rent.  We sometimes help out with Mel's rent.  We often send each of them money for food.  Mel hasn't had a job for ever, and Jenn lost her job a month ago, and is looking for work now.  I know we have to help ourselves survive first.  Financially, stopping it all right now would be best for us.  Emotionally, it would hurt us.  Is it acceptable or wise to develop a short-term transition plan that gives them time to get prepared?  Granted, they may not be prepared at the end of the plan's time, but at least we would have the comfort of knowing it was their choice not to get prepared in the allotted time.  And is there anything we should continue paying for?  Should we provide any safety net, other than our unconditional love?

Thanks for any advice.  God bless you all.

Having been through much of what you are going through, I know what I would do. I can only share my experience, strength and hope with you and you can take whatever you want and leave the rest (as we say at the end of our meetings). You ask - Is it acceptable or wise to develop a short-term transition plan that gives them time to get prepared?  Let me just say that I believe it is NECESSARY to develop a transition plan. It is called a 'boundary.' It should be collaborative, between you and your wife, and you MUST stick to the plan - no matter how many or what excuses your daughters come up with (and I can almost GUARANTEE you they WILL come up with them). WHATEVER you decided, you MUST STICK TO IT. You MUST follow through, as planned. If you have to write it down, in black and white or even purple and yellow, then WRITE IT DOWN. And, DO IT in the allotted time. You are absolutely right - it WILL be "their choice not to get prepared." I have told my son that I love him and will support him in his recovery, and if he chooses drugs, then he chooses NOT to be a member of our family. That is what I "provide" for him. Your thinking and ideas are in the right direction, my friend. Hang in there. This is going to be a challenging ride.

 

 

  I have not walked this path with a child of mine, however I have walked this path with others and their children.  Eileen, along with others here have in fact been through this and they offered you some great suggestions. 

  The one thing that they tell you and it bears you complete attention is that you HAVE TO STICK WITH WHAT YOU SAY YOU'LL DO.   You have to make the problem theirs to deal with.  They have the addiction and the addiction has you.  You have to distance yourself from it.  My heart is there for you.  Be strong together.
 

I am childless and am not sure how I would react to your situation.  I think what PAW said is pretty important: stick to your guns.  I think when you bend barriers and restrictions, you tend to allow the addict to step completely over you.  When my parents were faced with my alcoholism, I was away in college.  I was living in a small one bedroom apartment by myself and was fully dependent upon their finances.  They did give me about a weeks notice before the credit card was canceled and the weekly deposit would end.  After the week, I had to support myself.  But again, I think the situation might be different for everyone.  It was an eye-opener to me because I suddenly realized that all my support was gone and that something would have to be done.  I was spending about $200 to $300/ a week on alcohol and I knew that I would not be able to support my habit AND pay for my rent and bills.  It took about another six weeks until I was ready to get into treatment. 

 

There are others in here that have been exactly where you are, like Eileen.  I would really trust whatever experience, strength, and hope that they have to offer you.  

Eileen, I LOVED what you wrote in your last post above ~ firmly stating, "I  love you and will support you in your recovery".  And I would add..."yet will not continue to support you financially".   That puts the ball in their court and allows them to make their own choice. 

SoSadDad, congratulations on the new job offer.  During such a challenging time for your family, its nice to know that God is doing for you what you may not have been able to do for yourself.  "Now if that ain't ODD, its GOD".  ~ Joe & Charlie

Jhe T.